STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Many statements people have made about a peace plan for Russia and Ukraine sound familiar. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says he's optimistic. European leaders are skeptical and ask if the Americans are leaning toward Russia. President Trump complained that Ukraine has, quote, "zero gratitude." We've heard things like this before. What is different is that they're responding to a 28-point peace plan the United States put on the table in recent days. In a moment, we hear views from Washington and from a German analyst. We begin with negotiations between the U.S. and Ukraine.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
NPR's Berlin correspondent Rob Schmitz has been reporting on this. He's with us now to tell us more about it. Good morning, Rob.
ROB SCHMITZ, BYLINE: Morning, Michel.
MARTIN: So President Trump set a deadline of Thursday for Ukraine to agree to his 28-point plan. How are the Europeans feeling about this so far?
SCHMITZ: They are feeling left out. You know, even though the Europeans were present for some of the meetings in Geneva, when President Trump and his advisers drafted this peace plan, they did not consult European heads of state. And in Europe's view, that is a big oversight because the plan is filled with commitments that Europeans would have to make, like ponying up $100 billion for the reconstruction of Ukraine or being part of an emergency blueprint if the peace plan is violated. This is a war, after all, in Europe. You know, on the sidelines of the G20 summit in South Africa yesterday, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz had this to say to German broadcaster Deutsche Welle.
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CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ: I think that it's not achievable to have all the 28 points agreed until Thursday. So we are trying to figure out which part of this plan could be achieved unanimously between the Europeans, the Americans and Ukraine on one side, and the Russian on the other side.
MARTIN: Are there any parts of Trump's plan that the Europeans agree on?
SCHMITZ: Well, yeah, there's one part they agree on, that Ukraine must remain a sovereign state. But there are several points in the plan that the Europeans say are nonnegotiable, starting with the idea that Ukraine should cede territory that it currently controls. European leaders have always held that the frontline in the war has to be the starting point for negotiations. And the part of the plan that calls for Ukraine to reduce the size of its army, that is also a nonstarter for the Europeans. Here's European Commission President Ursula Von Der Leyen on social media.
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URSULA VON DER LEYEN: As a sovereign nation, there cannot be limitations on Ukraine's armed forces that would leave the country vulnerable to future attack and thereby also undermining European security.
MARTIN: So, Rob, where does this leave this peace process? I mean, are we looking at another, I don't know, stalemate?
SCHMITZ: Yeah. You know, the Kremlin still hasn't weighed in on the Geneva talks, and the U.S. says it'll hold separate talks with the Russians. We've got Turkey's president offering to mediate talks between Russia and Ukraine. We've also got French President Emmanuel Macron saying he'll meet with the leaders of Britain, Canada and other nations. So there's been this flurry of diplomacy here, and from what we understand, Ukrainian and U.S. officials have already changed the working version of the 28-point plan from the original.
But there is still a fair bit of confusion about that original 28-point proposal. A bipartisan of senators said over the weekend that Rubio told them the Trump plan was essentially a wish list of the Russians. Now, the State Department and Rubio himself both denied that, but what is clear is that, however this peace plan started, it is quickly evolving and it is now at the center of a big debate here in Europe about how this war could and should end.
MARTIN: That is NPR's Rob Schmitz joining us from Berlin. Rob, thank you.
SCHMITZ: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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