ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Let's get an update on the investigation into the attack on the CDC campus in Atlanta. Federal authorities haven't publicly disclosed a motive. But in a public letter, hundreds of current and former employees of the Department of Health and Human Services called it, quote, "misinformation-fueled violence." NPR domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef says this offers a view into how the Trump administration is taking a different approach to domestic terrorism. Hi, Odette.
ODETTE YOUSEF, BYLINE: Hey, Ari.
SHAPIRO: First, what's the latest on the investigation into the attack on the CDC?
YOUSEF: Well, I reached out to the FBI a week after the incident to ask if the agency is investigating the attack as a possible act of violent extremism or domestic terrorism. And the FBI referred me to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. It said that the GBI is leading this investigation. This surprised me, Ari, first because the attack was against a federal agency, but it also suggests that the FBI has not designated this as an act of domestic terrorism. I spoke with Mike German. He's a former FBI special agent now at the Brennan Center for Justice. And he says that when the agency does designate something as domestic terrorism, that triggers a whole new level of resources for the investigation.
MIKE GERMAN: In other words, not just looking at the single violent incident but any related criminal activity that might have assisted in that attack or suggest that a future attack by a co-conspirator might occur.
YOUSEF: Though in this case, the gunman died, Ari, so perhaps that accounts for the FBI's decisions here. And the GBI investigation may yield more information. But I think it's an interesting data point when we look at how the FBI thinks about domestic terrorism in this moment.
SHAPIRO: What other data points are you looking at?
YOUSEF: Well, I looked through public releases from the Department of Justice over the last seven months, and I was looking for announcements of arrests or charges where authorities specifically used the terms domestic terrorism or domestic violent extremism. And I found those exact terms in just a few cases. A couple of them involved people who allegedly damaged Tesla vehicles. Another instance involved a man accused of helping someone detonate a car bomb outside a fertility clinic in Palm Springs. But this isn't a complete picture.
And what's notable here, Ari, is that we're nearing the 24th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks and the FBI still says it cannot provide data on how many domestic terrorism investigations and prosecutions it conducts. These are data that lawmakers have been demanding for years - in fact, have required by law for years. But the FBI says it doesn't collect those numbers. You know, Mike German says, at the very least, the agency should be able to report on the work that it does. And he says that, you know, frankly, without this data, it's impossible to identify the greatest threats to the homeland and where resources should go.
SHAPIRO: You mentioned 9/11. So much has changed since then. Do counterterrorism experts think the U.S. is prepared to face the threats the country faces today?
YOUSEF: I spoke with Nicholas Rasmussen about this. He was the counterterrorism coordinator at the Department of Homeland Security up until Trump took office. He told me one thing giving him concern is the exodus from government service of highly experienced people who've worked on terrorism and counterterrorism issues.
NICHOLAS RASMUSSEN: I just worry that we are less capable at present than we might have been in earlier periods of time just because of the hollowing out that comes when so many senior people or experienced people leave.
YOUSEF: And among others that I spoke to, Ari, there's a real worry that cuts to federal grant programs and, in some cases, a redirection of dollars toward immigration enforcement means that local initiatives to prevent extremist and targeted violence will disappear.
SHAPIRO: Can you give us some examples?
YOUSEF: Yeah, that could look like cutting off funds to nonprofits that run antisemitism programs in local communities or ending support for Christian pastors who work on countering hate and ideologically driven violence. It could look like suspending behavioral management initiatives that take a public health approach to identifying and intervening when someone may be at the very early stages of planning violence. These are programs that had been slowly building over several years with the help of federal coordination and dollars, and now that period of growth seems to be ending.
SHAPIRO: That's NPR's Odette Yousef. Thank you.
YOUSEF: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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