Going Deep Podcast

We at Going Deep had to take some time off due to the pandemic, but we're back with a new show in a newly-expanded time slot.  The twin pandemics affecting the U.S. - racial injustice and the coronavirus - intersect with sports in so many ways.  The Shoops examined that in an op-ed for the News & Observer this summer.  In this episode, John and Marcia discuss those intersections with Dr.

A fundamental question - not just in sports but life - is 'what is fair?'  Our hosts are going to start looking for answers.  John begins by looking at 'what is fair' in baseball, a sport that has to be asking that question now given the Houston Astros cheating scandal, which seems to produce new revelations each day.  His guest is former MLB manager Clint Hurdle.

(Music featured includes Gizmo by Podington Bear)  

Super Bowl 54

Jan 29, 2020

This is our third annual Super Bowl episode of Going Deep.  One topic in these shows has been constant - race.  Ahead of Super Bowl 54, we look at the NFL's Rooney Rule, and how the number of minority head coaches in the NFL has decreased over the last decade.  We also examine gender roles in football.

(Music featured includes Enchanted Forest by Audiobinger and Atmosphere by Borrtex)  

This episode of Going Deep picks up where the last one left off, with Olympic hopeful and NCAA Division III steeplechase record holder Annie Rodenfels commenting on the Alberto Salazar scandal.  She and our hosts discuss the unfortunate significance of body types in women's running, and the rigors of training at an elite level.

(Music featured includes Coin Op by Chad Crouch)  

The world is learning more about women's elite running.  Unfortunately, that's due in part to the Alberto Salazar scandal, but there is far more to the sport than that.  And in this episode, our hosts delve into the world of women's elite running with NCAA Champion, NCAA Division III steeplechase record holder and Olympic hopeful Annie Rodenfels.  She shares how she got into running, and how training, coaching, and inner will pushed her to records during her time at Center College.  While at the school, she broke running records that were once held by our co-host Marcia Mount Shoop.

We continue the conversation from our last episode on the October 29th, 2019 decision by the NCAA's top governing board to allow college athletes the opportunity to 'benefit' from the name, image, and likeness while in school.  After John and Marcia finish scrutinizing the bullet points the NCAA put out after its decision, they focus on two factors that play into the collegiate sports model - race and geography.

(Music featured includes Kumaon Foothills by Scanglobe)

On October 29, 2019, the NCAA's top governing board voted unanimously to allow college athletes 'the opportunity to benefit' from their name, image, and likeness while they're in school.  That sentence - plus the bullet points that follow it in the NCAA release - have John and Marcia skeptical...very skeptical.  They express that skepticism and why they have it in the first of two episodes on the topic.

Name, Image, & Likeness

Oct 25, 2019

California's Senate Bill 206 - which allows college athletes to profit from their name, image, and likeness while in school - could be the legislation that breaks the NCAA prohibition on player compensation.  It passed both chambers of the California State Legislature unanimously in September, before being signed into law by Governor Gavin Newsom.  Given their history in fighting for player's rights, both of our hosts are quite excited by this.  In this episode, John and Marcia talk with Ramogi Huma, a former UCLA football player who is the executive director of the National College Players

Our 50th Show

Sep 12, 2019

This episode is Going Deep's 50th show!  Well...at least this version of the show.  John and Marcia started Going Deep when they were in West Lafayette, Indiana.  In this episode, we trace how they made their way to Asheville, and look back at the guests and issues that have really stuck with them since Going Deep started coming out of Blue Ridge Public Radio's studios.

(Music featured includes P Flunked Fun by Podington Bear)  

The 2019 NFL season starts without one of the league's star players.  Two weeks before the season was set to begin, Andrew Luck announced his retirement from the game after just seven seasons.  The 29-year-old Indianapolis Colts quarterback's decision stunned the sport and fans.  This episode sifts through the reaction - including booing from fans - to look at the physical and mental toll the sport takes on NFL players, before concluding with a beatifully thought-provoking response from Marcia to the question 'What is a fan owed?"

Dr. Joseph Cooper Part 2

Aug 2, 2019

In this episode, our hosts continue their conversation with Dr. Joseph Cooper, author of the book From Exploitation Back To Empowerment: Black Male Holistic (Under)Development Through Sport And (Mis)Education.  They focus on 'special admissions' that universities use to admit athletes - and how that really hurts and not helps the people who get them.

(Music featured includes Broken Soul Blues by Squire Tuck)  

Dr. Joseph Cooper Part 1

Jul 24, 2019

The Shoops welcome Dr. Joseph Cooper to the show in this episode, which focuses on his book From Exploitation Back To Empowerment: Black Male Holistic (Under)Development Through Sport And (Mis)Education.  Their conversation is so in-depth and engrossing that we've split it into two episodes.  In the first, Dr. Cooper talks about his upbringing and how it led him to write a book about how major revenue college sports exploit African-American males in particular.

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Jul 16, 2019

On July 7th, 2019, the U.S. Women's National Soccer Team won its second consecutive World Cup title.  Their dominant run in the tournament sparked some controversy, but even that only underscored what a cultural force the team has become, not just in the U.S. but globally.  In this episode we examine how that came be, and how a very well-known law helped women's soccer in the U.S.

(Music featured includes Skip Street by Chad Crouch)  

John Beilein is the latest big name college coach to jump from the NCAA to the NBA, moving from the University of Michigan to the Cleveland Cavaliers.  The college to pros pipeline has always seen a lot of action for the NFL and NBA.  But which level is more challenging to coach at - college or the pros?  One of our hosts has done both, and he shares his answer.

(Music featured includes You Wasted My Time When I Was Timewasting by Podington Bear)  

With the month of June over, that means all four major North American sports leagues have conducted their annual player drafts.  With that fresh in our minds, John & Marcia sat down with BPR's Matt Bush to figure which of the four drafts is most fair to players, and which one they would want to enter if they had the choice.  

(Music featured includes Vienna Jazz by Dee Yan-Key)  

The 2019 NFL Draft takes place from April 25th to the 27th.  This episode doesn't focus on who's going to get picked and where.  Instead, it examines the language used to evaluate players - and John's chilling realization about one aspect of the draft combine process that resembles the darkest chapters of American history.

2019 Final Four

Apr 4, 2019

Where does all the revenue go?  Marcia asked that at the end of our previous episode, and we start our second annual Final Four show by answering that question.  Later on we get Machiavellian, and ask whether the end justified the means about the head coaches of two schools appearing in the 2019 men's Final Four.

(Music featured includes No Noise Nose by Macchiato Funky)  

The 2019 NCAA Men’s basketball tournament will undoubtedly be remembered for many things.  One of them happened early on the first full day of the tournament.  As Michigan State struggled to put away underdog Bradley, Spartans head coach Tom Izzo started yelling at freshman star Aaron Henry as he approached the bench during a timeout.  Izzo became so heated as he yelled that Spartan players had to restrain him.  The controversy it sparked may have been predictable, bouncing between those who felt it was just old-fashioned hard coaching, and others who saw it as bullying.  Our hosts at the s

The Kaepernick Settlement

Mar 21, 2019

In February 2019, Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid reached a financial settlement with the NFL over their grievances following the 'Take A Knee' protests that garnered so much attention and controversy.  What message does the settlement send?  John and Marcia decided to bring that up with the man they first talked to about the 'Take A Knee' protests on the show, Washington Post columnist and ESPN contributor Kevin Blackistone.  

(Music featured Please Wake Up by Meydan and Princess Cheese Burger by Komiku)  

In the second part of their conversation with Maurice Clarett, John and Marcia examine what happened to the star running back after he was kicked out of Ohio State University.  Clarett was selected in the NFL Draft but cut a short time later after not making an impact on the field.  He wound up in prison in 2006, but jail was far from the final chapter in his life.  This episode finishes with Maurice offering a piece of advice to all young athletes - advice that caught our hosts off-guard in the best way possible.

When attending the premiere of the HBO documentary 'Student Athlete' last year, John & Marcia met someone who's a familiar name to even the most casual college football fan - Maurice Clarett.  While many know who he is, few know his real story.  Maurice certainly does, and he shares it with our hosts.  This episode examines his his recruitment to Ohio State University and leading the Buckeyes to the 2002 national championship in his freshman year.  Clarett was kicked out the school a year later because of NCAA violations, which he also details on the show.

Super Bowl 53

Jan 31, 2019

In our second annual Super Bowl episode, the Shoops examine how the NFL handled race and the effects of the 'Take A Knee' protests in the year after they dominated headlines - and John and Marcia found they were not encouraged by what has transpired.

(Music featured includes PC Plodder by Ketsa)

In our last episode "Losing", John & Marcia agreed that the toughest kind of loss is one where the key play or key moment of a game is decided by a missed or blown call by an official.  It only took a month for their point to be proved.  This year's NFL Conference Championship games both went to overtime for the first time in league history.  That didn't make headlines though - the officials did, mostly for a missed pass interference call in the NFC championship game.  Our hosts talk about why these types of losses hurt and an


Dec 20, 2018

What is it about losing that makes people, and sports fans in particular, act so irrationally?  The Shoops delve into that personal - and at times painful - topic in this episode in the search for an answer.

(Music featured includes Pounded Piano and Senseless by Podington Bear)  

December is an exceptionally stressful time of year for football coaches.  It isn’t just a time for preparing for bowl games or recruiting.  If you’ve had a bad season, you may be getting fired.  A good one, and you may be getting a job at a bigger school.  At the very least, you’re likely a part of coaching rumor mill that goes into overdrive.  It’s commonly called the coaching carousel, but our hosts start this episode by telling us it’s a different amusement park ride that the experience is most like.

(Music featured includes Onwards Updwards by Ketsa)  

This episode picks up where the prior one left off - with a continued look at the culmination of events starting from the death of University of Maryland football player Jordan McNair to the firing of the Terrapins head football coach on Halloween night.  In this episode, we focus on power - the power of money, the power of trauma, and the power of collegiate athletes.

(Music featured includes Trusting Each Other and Fog In The Street by Borrtex)  

On Halloween night, our hosts were ready to record an episode looking at some current events in sports with BPR's Matt Bush.  Five minutes before recording was set to start, the headline flashed - the University of Maryland had fired head football coach D.J.

This episode picks up where the last one left off - with Patton Robinette running off the campus of UNC-Chapel Hill before the first day of classes starts.  He leads on our hosts through his journey on what happened next, including a history making redshirt freshman year at Vanderbilt to his decision to end his career to focus on medical school.

(Music featured includes Kid Kodi and Copley Beat by Blue Dot Sessions)  

In an ultimate 'what could have been' story, our hosts talk with Patton Robinette.  John recruited him during his last season at the University of North Carolina, to the point that Patton had committed to going to Chapel Hill.  When John and the rest of the staff were fired over the growing academic scandal at the school, it started a long journey for Patton, who wound up at Vanderbilt University and is now done with football and in medical school.  In this episode, our hosts introduce us to Patton and talk about his recruitment to UNC - and how he never played a down there.

Sedentary Sports - Poker

Oct 11, 2018

In this episode, John and Marcia begin their examination of the rise of sedentary sports in America.  While e-sports and Fortnite have surged in popularity in recent years, they still don't come close to poker - both online and in-person.  Their guest in this episode is Darren Elias, one of the top World Poker Tour players.

(Music featured includes Brown by Nctrnm)